Would you buy again?

Andy131

Well travelled
Location
Manchester UK
A relay is just a switch that is operated by a coil, so there will be a low current (thin wire) live feed and low current earth (thin wire) this applies 12V to the coil that "throws" the switch.
The switch will have a high current (thick wire) live, and another thick wire that goes to the device that needs to be powered - fuel injection for example.
In an emergency you short out the two thick wires - causing the pump to run permanently.

Don't short the two thin wires as they are effectively live & earth = blown fuse.

For the fuel relay the thick wires are orange and brown according to the wiring diagram for my Euro 4 bike
 

RotorWrench

Well travelled
Location
USA
What do you mean by 'jump a relay'?
Sorry, I'm just now getting to this but Andy131 pretty much answered that. Like he said, the relay is basically just a remote switch so you just have to jump or bypass the relay. If the load is using the negative through the relay, that's what you jump, if it's the power (positive) wire, that's what you jump.

To do this, if you don't carry a DMM with you, it helps immensely to already be familiar with or carry your bikes wire code with you. I keep mine with my documents. But I also carry a mini DMM.

For example, last year, on another bike, I was on the last leg of a camping trip coming home and it was dark, on a section of gravel road that is notorious for deer and moose. About 60 miles from home I lost my auxiliary lights relay (Bosch) . I just pulled the female blade connectors off 30 and 87 and taped them together. Worked fine all the way home.
 

JurS

Finally made it
Location
Swindon
Thanks guys, I get it (I think). I'll keep it in mind if it ever happens again, although usually things only get worse when I try to fix something myself :)
 

JimboDevon

Getting there...
Location
Devon, UK
Thanks guys, I get it (I think). I'll keep it in mind if it ever happens again, although usually things only get worse when I try to fix something myself :)
After my relay-induced headlight failure last week I've taken to carrying a short length of wire with a male spade connector crimped on each end that can be stuck into the holes in the relay socket instead of the relay if I need to bypass one.
My replacement relays were a couple of quid each, seems a pathetic amount of cash for RE to save for such a reliability penalty.
 

Eatmore Mudd

Moderator
Staff member
After my relay-induced headlight failure last week I've taken to carrying a short length of wire with a male spade connector crimped on each end that can be stuck into the holes in the relay socket instead of the relay if I need to bypass one.
My replacement relays were a couple of quid each, seems a pathetic amount of cash for RE to save for such a reliability penalty.
I'd like to encourage everyone with a problem to contact Enfield corporate HQ Have your vehicle ID numbers handy be polite because and tell them exactly what's up.
The big shots do use that for info to tune up the process and hold their suppliers accountable.

Anyone remember the Himalayan proactive service campaign of 2016 ? The Continental corroding caliper pins of 2021 ? Granted those were biggies but the ball got rolling because an owner offered the info first.
 

JurS

Finally made it
Location
Swindon
This is the text of my email I sent to RE UK about the failed relay:

I have a 2021 Himalayan, purchased new in September 2021 and now having done 5400 miles. A few days ago the bike suddenly stalled and cut out while I was riding it, and it had to be recovered. The dealer found the problem to be a bad relay. Apparently this is a known issue, many people have experienced this as you can read on various websites. It has been replaced under warranty.

However, I want to know why there hasn’t been a recall about this. Apart from the obvious inconvenience, a bike suddenly stalling and cutting out is a major risk, imagine this happens during an overtake or on a busy intersection. Not to mention during greenlaning in places where a recovery truck can’t even go.

Since this is a known issue (my dealer immediately suspected this to be the case even before he had seen the bike) I am very surprised that my bike was delivered to me with a potential faulty relay, with all the associated risks and dangers. As a customer I feel that RE, being aware of this, should have issued a recall to inspect and replace these potentially faulty relays before they become an actual problem.

I look forward to your reply,


If they ever reply I will let you know.
 

Andy131

Well travelled
Location
Manchester UK
In the UK you have to get vehicles inspected every year after year 3, this is called the MOT (Ministry Of Transport (test)).
You can go to the government website and check previous MOTs - great if you are buying second hand as you can quickly tell if the vehicle has been badly maintained. Anyway if there is an outstanding compulsory recall then it will be noted on this webpage, if it's a voluntary recall then it advises you to go to the dealership.
For example the brake recall on my old Himalayan isn't listed as it's voluntary.
 

Eatmore Mudd

Moderator
Staff member
In the UK you have to get vehicles inspected every year after year 3, this is called the MOT (Ministry Of Transport (test)).
You can go to the government website and check previous MOTs - great if you are buying second hand as you can quickly tell if the vehicle has been badly maintained. Anyway if there is an outstanding compulsory recall then it will be noted on this webpage, if it's a voluntary recall then it advises you to go to the dealership.
For example the brake recall on my old Himalayan isn't listed as it's voluntary.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember calipers being an issue on the Himalayan over here but it I think it was for some 650's. I know it didn't affect every Himalayan ant 650 twin and it wasn't a design flaw. It was one batch of calipers not anodized right. Since the following batch was same same as the batch before the bad one we can assume RE corporate had a one sided discussion with the supplier.
 

Andy131

Well travelled
Location
Manchester UK
I received a letter saying that my Himmy was subject to a recall due to possible corrosion of the brake caliper(s). Looked official, went to the dealership and was asked was the caliper casting smooth or rough, whichever it was it meant that the caliper had already been changed. The dealership was changing calipers on bikes it had in stock prior to me purchasing my bike, but there was no way of recording the work done with RE.
There is no outstanding recall on my old RE, so either it was voluntary, or it's been officially completed - in which case the paperwork / site are really on the ball.
 

NJAYALAYAN

Getting there...
Location
New Jersey
I had this same relay issue happen in the middle of a ride. I couldn't get the bike to start back up and it was getting dark, then it started and ran for about 2 miles before cutting out again like it was out of gas. The issue was the relay under the seat failed or got stuck, and the fuel pump wasn't working as a result. I figured out the relay issue from Youtube videos. Order a pack of the Hitchcocks UK improved relays and the bike works fine. Have an appointment for service and will bring this up with the dealer for what good it will do. It definitely should have been addressed as it is a well-known issue. I had no trouble finding info online. My bike barely has 4000 miles and planning a 2000-mile trip next month. It shook my confidence in the bike a little but Himalayan has been great except for the relay issues. This makes 3 separate relay fails, first the flashers, then the horn, and now the fuel pump. Kind of annoying but still rides great otherwise on and off-road!
 

Dabrakeman

Finally made it
Location
Michigan, USA
I would have hoped that RE would have done something here on the relay issue given its prevalence and potential severity but according to my dealer there were no bulletins or anything on it. Only worked with the dealer because this was my first "new" bike, all others being used bikes. Looking up part numbers for the relays in the US I saw what seemed to be a part number suffix change from /A to /B so thought maybe they had found and fixed an issue. After getting the bike back from the dealer who said they replaced the fuel pump and system relays I took it apart and still found way too much grease in all 4 relays and they two that were replaced actually were slightly older build date relays than the two originals (originals May 29th 2021 and the replacements were May 19th and March 19th 2021. Bike built in June 2021. So seems to me just replacing with what already had high failure rates at the dealers. Although I have gone 300 miles without incident since getting the bike back I have no confidence. I have some of the Panasonics now that I will be putting in soon.
 

Burcotbiker

Getting there...
Location
UK Midlands
Just a quick question about replacing the fuel pump relay. My 2021 euro 5 with just under 2k miles did the random cutting out thing so I thought I would replace the fuel pump relay for the sake of a few quid. I had just turned across a main road when the bike died but luckily I managed to roll out of the way, a few seconds earlier and I dread to think what might have happened if it had cut out in oncoming traffic. Anyway I only live about 10 miles from Hitchcock's so I popped in and got a relay and fitted it. When I came to use the bike a few days later the engine management light was on although the bike seemed to be running fine so I carried on. I seem to remember reading that they reset themselves after a certain number of restarts so I pulled over a couple of times and did this and the light went out. All I can put this down to was swapping the relay and all seems well now but I just wanted to ask if this was normal as when I searched the warning light reset thing there seems to be some people saying it works and some saying it doesn't?
 

tom_d

Well travelled
Location
US
I actually am concerned that people are removing all of their dielectric grease, as most people I know don't have it handy or on hand I suspect most are then left more prone to oxidation or intrusion of water (dew or otherwise) and possibly creating a new problem. Emphasizing replacement of the dielectric grease with something that might be deemed more affective should likely be emphasized. Mine is a 2019 which has never exibuted an issue with relays.
And, I would buy again, part of my value judgment was to purchase without a loan, not have full coverage insurance, and reserve some of the long term savings knowing I was being my own theft/vandalism insurance and to plan accordingly. I wouldn't be able to afford this position with most all motorcycles which fit my need, but can with the Royal Enfield. The Scram is very likely the one I would choose for replacement currently as it more closely fits my actual use and is a bit less expensive to boot.
 

RotorWrench

Well travelled
Location
USA
I actually am concerned that people are removing all of their dielectric grease, as most people I know don't have it handy or on hand I suspect most are then left more prone to oxidation or intrusion of water (dew or otherwise) and possibly creating a new problem. Emphasizing replacement of the dielectric grease with something that might be deemed more affective should likely be emphasized. Mine is a 2019 which has never exibuted an issue with relays.
And, I would buy again, part of my value judgment was to purchase without a loan, not have full coverage insurance, and reserve some of the long term savings knowing I was being my own theft/vandalism insurance and to plan accordingly. I wouldn't be able to afford this position with most all motorcycles which fit my need, but can with the Royal Enfield. The Scram is very likely the one I would choose for replacement currently as it more closely fits my actual use and is a bit less expensive to boot.

Agreed. There have been many complaints of the grease, with many owners not truly realizing what it was or being used for. Also it has been blamed for connectivity issues with relays and connectors.

While yes, RE did use it rather liberally in places, the problems being blamed on it are actually poor quality connectors that have a poor friction fit, not the grease. You could apply a half pound of the stuff to a properly engaging electrical connector with no problems, but on a loose fit connection it can cause problems.

I apply dielectric grease almost as liberally as RE does on my bikes and vehicles because of the weather, conditions and also the de-ice chemicals I ride in. As Tom mentioned, not only prevents water ingress and associated shorting, but helps prevent corrosion from dissimilar metal and environmental causes. I even use small amounts of it in environmental and Deutsche connectors.
 

Pressureangle

Getting there...
I am in the last steps to pick up a new 2022 Himalayan. With all the issues I hear about I also hear positive reviews. I feel confused! Should I buy this bike for a local around town and camping bike or look for something else? Thanks!
We have one in the garage with 3000 miles. If I add another ADV bike of any brand, it'll be another Himalayan. It's just too perfect for what I want to do with one.
 

Pressureangle

Getting there...
Agreed. There have been many complaints of the grease, with many owners not truly realizing what it was or being used for. Also it has been blamed for connectivity issues with relays and connectors.

While yes, RE did use it rather liberally in places, the problems being blamed on it are actually poor quality connectors that have a poor friction fit, not the grease. You could apply a half pound of the stuff to a properly engaging electrical connector with no problems, but on a loose fit connection it can cause problems.

I apply dielectric grease almost as liberally as RE does on my bikes and vehicles because of the weather, conditions and also the de-ice chemicals I ride in. As Tom mentioned, not only prevents water ingress and associated shorting, but helps prevent corrosion from dissimilar metal and environmental causes. I even use small amounts of it in environmental and Deutsche connectors.
The grease RE uses is Lithium grease, which was universal before the advent of Silicone grease (dialectric) Lithium grease is waterproof and non-reactive, and in the case of electrical connectors is just as good as dialectric grease. The problem I found with our Himmie's electrical connections was always loose spades.

Dialectric silicone grease has insulating properties better than lithium, and is a better option for higher voltage positions such as spark plug boots and critical data cables. There's no significant technical benefit in a simple unsealed 12v connection.
 

RotorWrench

Well travelled
Location
USA
The grease RE uses is Lithium grease, which was universal before the advent of Silicone grease (dialectric) Lithium grease is waterproof and non-reactive, and in the case of electrical connectors is just as good as dialectric grease. The problem I found with our Himmie's electrical connections was always loose spades.

Dialectric silicone grease has insulating properties better than lithium, and is a better option for higher voltage positions such as spark plug boots and critical data cables. There's no significant technical benefit in a simple unsealed 12v connection.
Yes, it is a lithium based grease and for its intended purpose on the Himalayan, works fine. Before true dielectric greases, especially dialectic silicones, were widely available, even on aircraft, we regularly used then, and still now, white lithium grease for electrical sealing and insulation.

There are several proprietary lithium greases that are as insulative and heat resistant as dielectric silicones but with the advantage of better lubricating properties, which we still use on aircraft electrical switches and contacts where arcing can be a problem.

I have no idea about the chemical makeup of the grease RE uses but there are a lot of Himalayans in the field with that grease in the ignition switches with a lot of cycles on them with few known problems associated with it.
 
Top Bottom