Battery Woes

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Getting there...
Location
Australia
Just did the RR leaking diode test on my 2020 Hima as per the videos Robert posted above. sure enough, much the same as the videos. I get around 0.5v across the RR pins in one direction and around 1.7v in the reverse, so looks like I’ve hopefully found my battery discharge issue… across the generator. I’ve booked it in for the dealer to do their own tests tomorrow and will report back.
 

Attachments

imnvegas

Well travelled
I contacted Hitchcocks in the UK since my local dealer here in LV is worthless and keeps telling me there is nothing wrong and wants to charge me. I only have 1100 miles on my Himalayan. I though replacing the R/R would fix the problem. I just bought a new battery and charged it to capacity. I am no counting the days til dead battery. This is
the reply from Hitchcocks.


3475
 
I thought I posted this, but I believe the reason RE is not responding to the RR issue is because of this lawsuit, their hands are likely tied and cannot get the units modified.
This was RE reply.
We would like to clarify that the said component is supplied to us by an external, proprietary supplier, which independently develops and owns the IP rights in the said component. The supplier denies plaintiff’s claims vehemently. We are actively evaluating the issue internally and seeking legal advice from our US counsels.

Copyright (C) 'RUSH LANE' Read more at... https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfield-sued-in-court-12310996.html .

 

KTM AL

Well travelled
Location
Southwater UK
I have upgraded a few of my bikes using a Shindengen mosfet FH020AA regulator / rectifiers in the past with good results. There are kits available on eBay
Here's one fitted to a SRAD Suzuki I had
 

KTM AL

Well travelled
Location
Southwater UK
The wiring is basically the the same with 3 cables from the generator and a positive and negative from the regulator rectifier , I admit there would be a bit of adaption to allow the connection of 2 positive cables and 2 negative cables as shown in the wiring diagram, and the Himmi not known for slack on any cable. Just thought I'd mention it. I put one on my KTM 990 Adv too, so crap R/R are not only limited to Royal Enfields
 

imnvegas

Well travelled
My Himmy is currently at my independent dealer here in the valley. They do all the work on my Fatboy and they are awesome. I am having a cutout switch put on the battery. I'll just switch off the battery from the system when parked...That should fix the problem until RE gets its stuff together....I'll post pictures when I get her back
 

imnvegas

Well travelled
Here is the cut-out switch installed. My mechanic installed it under the rear fender on the right side. It is out of the way of everything and is easy to reach and seems to work like a charm. The key is really locked in when it is turned on, but I did make a safety cord just in case and I put the second key under the seat. When off and I turn the key on there are no lights no nothing......insert the key and everything works.....I'll let the bike sit for a week and see, but I think the parasitic drain problem is solved. Besides the regulator/rectifier, he also found a drain coming from the computer system...not much but with the r/r it added to the problem... 3689
 

Roy Gavin

Well travelled
Honda had R/R problems too, they were too small so if you jump/ bump started them with a flat battery and the generator was flat out charging the flat battery it could burn out the R/R. DAHIK, Dumb heated grips!
The instructions in the handbook positively forbid bump or jump starting, but, hey, who ever reads the instructions or pays any attention to them if they do.
Just make it foolproof!
Most any five wire R/R can be subbed in an emergency, and wreckers almost give them away. But not certain the Hima is five wire.
If you buy one follow the previous advice and get a decent Mosfet and run new heavy leads direct to the battery!
 

KTM AL

Well travelled
Location
Southwater UK
Honda had R/R problems too, they were too small so if you jump/ bump started them with a flat battery and the generator was flat out charging the flat battery it could burn out the R/R. DAHIK, Dumb heated grips!
The instructions in the handbook positively forbid bump or jump starting, but, hey, who ever reads the instructions or pays any attention to them if they do.
Just make it foolproof!
Most any five wire R/R can be subbed in an emergency, and wreckers almost give them away. But not certain the Hima is five wire.
If you buy one follow the previous advice and get a decent Mosfet and run new heavy leads direct to the battery!
I will check mine and if it does drain I will try a Shindengen mosfet FH020AA as I have a spare one in the shed , and have connectors in the post.
 

imnvegas

Well travelled
I had to go back east for the past 9 days so the Himmy was just sitting for the entire time. I just put in the shut-off key and turned it on to reconnect the battery and poof the battery was strong and she started right up. Previously she would have been DEAD DEAD DEAD...PROBLEM FIXED! Installing the battery cut-off worked like a charm.
 

Flicka

Well travelled
Location
Italy
Any updates on replacement RR unit appreciated. I too have replaced a battery, and am reluctant to run a battery tender continuously (volunteer firie who’s seen what can happen when these things go awry…) and just not wanting the dramas of fuse pulling etc and having to put up with the compass doing it’s CA flashy thing, aah it’s good to have something to grumble about
Search for:
voltage regulator rectifier fit for honda cbr600 cbr 600 rr 2003-2006 2004 2005
pay attention not to buy a cheap clone
 

Flicka

Well travelled
Location
Italy
Gear position sensor issue
(Credits to Stefan Scholz from)



It was the gear position sensor. The developer had simply forgotten that this needs plus, mass and coupling plus. In the circuit there is only clutch plus (behind the clutch switch). So Plus was simply taken from the next possible point, the regulator. And thus in front of the main switch. Not noticeable in daily use, only for casual drivers.
The clock is now also at 0.7 mA because there is no longer any communication with the gear sensor.

II'll try to describe what I've done. Under the seat / tank is the alternator regulator, such as an aluminum housing, with 3 connection groups; 3 yellow wires (is the alternating current from the alternator), 2 black wires, one to ground and another to the negative lines (chassis as a return line would lead to electrochemical corrosion on the steel frame, since negative ground) and 2 red wires to the F1.

An adapter cable is plugged into the connection plug to the red lines, which leads into a rubber bell, where the actual connection coupling for the controller output cable is located. Pull this out on both sides and plug the controller plug directly into the coupling in the rubber bell.

You could now nibble off the adhesive tape and insulating tube layer from the short bridge cable, pull out the conductor leading to the control unit, cut it off and solder and shrink a longer cable. Put this somewhere on a plus behind the main switch. I once tapped the horn (is switched to minus) on the connection side behind the fuse, and guided it under the bench to control a switch there that switches the USB sockets and accessory connections. From this horn plus I then fed the gear control circuit. But I left the cable in between and connected it to the connection leading to the control unit by means of a 6.3 mm flat plug.

It would be relatively easy to get a switched plus on the brown wire of the diagnostic connector under the seat. I don't like it because the power supply to the engine control unit fails in the event of a short circuit. Horn, however, is bearable.

You could of course put a microfuse with 100 mA in the circle.

What I found interesting is that as long as there is communication with the gear indicator, the Instrument Cluster also draws more electricity.







Control unit

3766











R/R Unit (Regulator)












My connection solution to the adapter cable. I fixed and sealed it with self-vulcanizing mud tape and black adhesive tape. (The stuff comes from antenna connector sealing kits in cell phone construction, you take what's on hand.)


3765











Rubber bell (or whatever you call it with socket for the Regulator connection) sits on the left side

3764
 

tom_d

Finally made it
Location
US
Gear position sensor issue
(Credits to Stefan Scholz from)



It was the gear position sensor. The developer had simply forgotten that this needs plus, mass and coupling plus. In the circuit there is only clutch plus (behind the clutch switch). So Plus was simply taken from the next possible point, the regulator. And thus in front of the main switch. Not noticeable in daily use, only for casual drivers.
The clock is now also at 0.7 mA because there is no longer any communication with the gear sensor.

II'll try to describe what I've done. Under the seat / tank is the alternator regulator, such as an aluminum housing, with 3 connection groups; 3 yellow wires (is the alternating current from the alternator), 2 black wires, one to ground and another to the negative lines (chassis as a return line would lead to electrochemical corrosion on the steel frame, since negative ground) and 2 red wires to the F1.

An adapter cable is plugged into the connection plug to the red lines, which leads into a rubber bell, where the actual connection coupling for the controller output cable is located. Pull this out on both sides and plug the controller plug directly into the coupling in the rubber bell.

You could now nibble off the adhesive tape and insulating tube layer from the short bridge cable, pull out the conductor leading to the control unit, cut it off and solder and shrink a longer cable. Put this somewhere on a plus behind the main switch. I once tapped the horn (is switched to minus) on the connection side behind the fuse, and guided it under the bench to control a switch there that switches the USB sockets and accessory connections. From this horn plus I then fed the gear control circuit. But I left the cable in between and connected it to the connection leading to the control unit by means of a 6.3 mm flat plug.

It would be relatively easy to get a switched plus on the brown wire of the diagnostic connector under the seat. I don't like it because the power supply to the engine control unit fails in the event of a short circuit. Horn, however, is bearable.

You could of course put a microfuse with 100 mA in the circle.

What I found interesting is that as long as there is communication with the gear indicator, the Instrument Cluster also draws more electricity.







Control unit

View attachment 3766











R/R Unit (Regulator)












My connection solution to the adapter cable. I fixed and sealed it with self-vulcanizing mud tape and black adhesive tape. (The stuff comes from antenna connector sealing kits in cell phone construction, you take what's on hand.)


View attachment 3765











Rubber bell (or whatever you call it with socket for the Regulator connection) sits on the left side

View attachment 3764
Would you know who the Stefan Scholz this is attributed to and or perhaps what forum it might have been posted to?

Best I can tell from what is posted, he put the rectifier on a switched circuit which only comes on when the ignition is turned on thereby eliminating the draw when the key is off.

It's mentioned in the Stefan Scholz fix above a battery draw being somehow due to the the gear sensor interacting, I've seen this mentioned for a couple years, but I believe people who have tried to isolate the draw didn't find any difference from disconnecting it. Unplugging the main fuses or unplugging the rectifier did apparently eliminate the troublesome draw. I've yet to see someone put an aftermarket RR or say they tried this, seeing a verifiable/verified option might be interesting if it could be made plug and play. I've found good success with using a budget replacement battery (SLA) and a inexpensive but modern trickle charger, NOCO Genius 1.
 
Last edited:

Flicka

Well travelled
Location
Italy
Would you know who the Stefan Scholz this is attributed to and or perhaps what forum it might have been posted to?

Best I can tell from what is posted, he put the rectifier on a switched circuit which only comes on when the ignition is turned on thereby eliminating the draw when the key is off.

It's mentioned in the Stefan Scholz fix above a battery draw being somehow due to the the gear sensor interacting, I've seen this mentioned for a couple years, but I believe people who have tried to isolate the draw didn't find any difference from disconnecting it. Unplugging the main fuses or unplugging the rectifier did apparently eliminate the troublesome draw. I've yet to see someone put an aftermarket RR or say they tried this, seeing a verifiable/verified option might be interesting if it could be made plug and play. I've found good success with using a budget replacement battery (SLA) and a inexpensive but modern trickle charger, NOCO Genius 1.

Stephan Scholz posted his solution in this discussion of the German Facebook group “Royal Enfield Tech & Service”, this is the link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/828936904616531/permalink/910450833131804/

he didn’t put the rectifier on a switched circuit but the power supply of the gear position sensor which now only comes on when the ignition is turned on thereby eliminating the draw.
For convenience / laziness Royal Enfield technicians have plugged this power into the voltage regulator circuit which is (rightfully) directly connected to the battery.
 

Roy Gavin

Well travelled
Yep, basic and simple, with a five wire R/R the output wires should go direct to the battery, with a 20A inline fuse.
Anything else that was connected to these terminals should be fed by switched power, preferably through a relay.
Like just about every other bike ever made!
But not the first poor solution - when Triumph added High Pressure mechanical injection to their previously carbed saloon cars they fed the 120 watt/ 10 amp fuel pump direct from one of the terminals on the coil.
On a circuit which went through the ignition switch without a relay.
For some reason few spotted that mistake either, and a whole generation of injected cars were cursed to damnation.
I ran my pump from a separate battery in the boot adjacent to the pump, which solved the problem.
When Jaguar adopted the same injection system a few years later they did the same!
 

Gsborn

Getting there...
Location
Denmark
Gear position sensor issue
(Credits to Stefan Scholz from)



It was the gear position sensor. The developer had simply forgotten that this needs plus, mass and coupling plus. In the circuit there is only clutch plus (behind the clutch switch). So Plus was simply taken from the next possible point, the regulator. And thus in front of the main switch. Not noticeable in daily use, only for casual drivers.
The clock is now also at 0.7 mA because there is no longer any communication with the gear sensor.

II'll try to describe what I've done. Under the seat / tank is the alternator regulator, such as an aluminum housing, with 3 connection groups; 3 yellow wires (is the alternating current from the alternator), 2 black wires, one to ground and another to the negative lines (chassis as a return line would lead to electrochemical corrosion on the steel frame, since negative ground) and 2 red wires to the F1.

An adapter cable is plugged into the connection plug to the red lines, which leads into a rubber bell, where the actual connection coupling for the controller output cable is located. Pull this out on both sides and plug the controller plug directly into the coupling in the rubber bell.

You could now nibble off the adhesive tape and insulating tube layer from the short bridge cable, pull out the conductor leading to the control unit, cut it off and solder and shrink a longer cable. Put this somewhere on a plus behind the main switch. I once tapped the horn (is switched to minus) on the connection side behind the fuse, and guided it under the bench to control a switch there that switches the USB sockets and accessory connections. From this horn plus I then fed the gear control circuit. But I left the cable in between and connected it to the connection leading to the control unit by means of a 6.3 mm flat plug.

It would be relatively easy to get a switched plus on the brown wire of the diagnostic connector under the seat. I don't like it because the power supply to the engine control unit fails in the event of a short circuit. Horn, however, is bearable.

You could of course put a microfuse with 100 mA in the circle.

What I found interesting is that as long as there is communication with the gear indicator, the Instrument Cluster also draws more electricity.







Control unit

View attachment 3766











R/R Unit (Regulator)












My connection solution to the adapter cable. I fixed and sealed it with self-vulcanizing mud tape and black adhesive tape. (The stuff comes from antenna connector sealing kits in cell phone construction, you take what's on hand.)


View attachment 3765











Rubber bell (or whatever you call it with socket for the Regulator connection) sits on the left side

View attachment 3764
I tried this method, it is easy to do but the effect was zero.
My motorcycle has been standing still since last Sunday with 13 V in the battery until today with 11.8 V = empty, the motorcycle does not start.
I supplied the gear sensor cable with power via a relay.
All extra electricity for fog lights, gps, grip warmers also runs via a relay.
 

tom_d

Finally made it
Location
US
I tried this method, it is easy to do but the effect was zero.
My motorcycle has been standing still since last Sunday with 13 V in the battery until today with 11.8 V = empty, the motorcycle does not start.
I supplied the gear sensor cable with power via a relay.
All extra electricity for fog lights, gps, grip warmers also runs via a relay.
Thanks for trying and posting the results, I have seen this solution posted a couple of times in various forums, but never was able to speak with someone who had successfully tried it. My understanding is that unplugging these sensors made no difference for the small group of people focusing on diagnosing the source of the draw. As they found no correlation between the gear indicator, or any of the relays and sensors and the 7 ma draw, I didn't see how taking that sensor out of circuit would change anything but I was hoping it did work.
I am no electrician, but am a poor excuse for a ham radio operator. :) There is known draw for a real time clock for the dash, and the ECU contains some sort of state information somewhere which can be reset by removing battery power for a short while for things like fixing the gear indicator display. The drain can be stopped by pulling the 2 larger fuses, 1 and 2 which are 25A, though just one may be the necessary to do so. It could just be the design of the rectifier and some amount of acceptable current leakage in this design.
I know I'm not going to swap out the rectifier so I just focus on the practical side of the equation and spend a little extra effort in making sure it is attached to a trickle charger. It prevents the annoying start issues and I think more importantly keeps the battery in good health instead of the steady decline that will be seen if left unchecked.
 
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