2021 Himalayan Maintenance/Upgrades

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
The Holes in the Damper Rod when installing YSS PD fork valves question - Y/N? Sent an email to YSS regarding the front fork PD fork valve install. The company has responded:

"Good afternoon and please kindly inform you that in case of you bought only PD Valve, you need to modify it by drill the hole but R&D Team have suggested that you should buy in a set of fork upgrade kit in item code Y-FCM38-KIT-08-003. Then, you do not need to modify or drill anything. In case of you would like to buy it, you can contact our dealer in USA."

This brings to mind the Andreani fork cartridges, and other motorcycles that have similar installs.

The Andreani fork cartridges use one fork cartridge for rebound damping and the other for compression damping. Each cartridge does both, to what extent depends on which aspect of suspension tuning is being done; however, the adjustable fork cartridge needs to be designed to take into account the non-adjustable fork cartridge, and as such, the adjustable cartridge has more work to do. This lends itself to the reply from the company.

If you use one PD fork valve, you must modify the damping rod becasue the fork with the PD fork valve installed is doing the work for both forks - design upgrade, and requires unimpeded oil flow for the PD fork valve to work properly.

If you use the upgrade kit and install a PD fork valve in each fork, you will not have to modify the damping rod becasue the compression work is now shared equally between the forks.

I trust this makes sense, as it does to me - makes the upgrade a lot easier. I tend to question similar items/installs to hopefully understand what is being done from a common sense perspective. Been a few years since I've had to concern myself with any design issues, and even then, it was in marine system design and the euipment is a bit larger.
 

Roy Gavin

Well travelled
Sounds like the Andreani cartridges are similar to the HPN ones I fitted to my Airheads. Which work very well.
And the YSS valves have been simplified to ease fitting. At the expense of performance.
Hope adjustment knobs are big enough so that you can set things on the run - can be a nice learning curve even for the well read!
And makes the spring choice less critical.
Always worked in the construction side of things where the problem was was usually to redesign projects to make things work or to reduce costs so the proposed project stacked up.
So I am well used to squawking from "experts" who see their designs and theories demolished!
Last two design and construct jobs I did, a few years back, were International open tenders for a Gaint Merlion in Singapore and the Body zone in the Millennium Dome in London.
Both won easily, finished well within the clients required timeframe and within the original tender budget.
 

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Sounds like the Andreani cartridges are similar to the HPN ones I fitted to my Airheads. Which work very well.
And the YSS valves have been simplified to ease fitting. At the expense of performance.
Hope adjustment knobs are big enough so that you can set things on the run - can be a nice learning curve even for the well read!
And makes the spring choice less critical.
Always worked in the construction side of things where the problem was was usually to redesign projects to make things work or to reduce costs so the proposed project stacked up.
So I am well used to squawking from "experts" who see their designs and theories demolished!
Last two design and construct jobs I did, a few years back, were International open tenders for a Gaint Merlion in Singapore and the Body zone in the Millennium Dome in London.
Both won easily, finished well within the clients required timeframe and within the original tender budget.
Still liking an upgrade to the Andreani fork cartridges considering in June 2023, the Himalayan is going to Tuktoyaktuk. It's going to be a good trip. The Dempster Highway from Dawson City to Tuktoyaktuk is approximatel 1300 Kms one way. I may use the YSS fork preload caps/bolts on the front forks becasue the sag number is not that bad. Can always get an inexpensive set of fork preload caps/bolts and keep the YSS front suspension kit together.

Going to broach the trail/off road riding with the old gents over coffee at the local dealer tomorrow. Going to mention that trail/off road riding has not been in my repertoire, ever. If you want to go off trail and ditch banging with a snowmobile, I'm there. The owner of the shop, his wife and several of the old gents go out for some off roading on a regular basis. Hoping I can get an invite, would learn a lot.

Starting an item list for the Tuktoyaktuk trip.

Agree with your premise on the engineering design aspects of a product. Unless there is a good up front R&D test aspect, there will always be the possibility of an engineering redesign. When Honda was developing the shaft driven Gold Wing, there was very little if any information on the required design parameters for the shaft. To get the shaft to the required design parameters - unknown at first, test riders would go out on the track - do about 30 to 40 MPH, put the engine in neutral, then force the engine into first - no clutch being used. This continued until the shaft stood up to the abuse. This test also had Honda make changes to the engine case as well. Rather aggressive r&d and testing, but it worked.

I have seen this on several ocassions where an aftermarket product that was better than the OEM design, or where the OEM design was modified to better suit the requirement. A lot of these innovative ideas disappeared into the woodwork, bought up by the OEM. Electric vehicles are the fad of the day, but years ago saw a documentary on the death of the electric vehicle - go figure.

If it weren't for the people who challenge the staus quo, we'd still be riding around in Red River Carts.
 

Roy Gavin

Well travelled
Never understood some folks fixation with someone else's sag figures , at best I found that they are a starting point for further tuning .
Once watched a pro check suspension - he stood the bike upright and jabbed the rider footrest a few times.
This let him check spring rate , balance front to rear and rebound damping - but then he probably had something t compare it with!
Perhaps if you were able to find a similar bike with known to be good suspension you could compare it with yours.
Sounds too simple but it worked for him!
Something else Honda found was that the sliding splines on dry drive shafts needed better lube than most if they were not to gall- I was guided to the special lube Renault used in the CV joints on FWD cars for my BMW , Honda sold their own brand 60% moly lube.
And BMW still use the wrong stuff!
 
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Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Ordered and received the fork oil level gauge. Was thinking of using the tried and true coat hanger gauge, but decided to up my game. $28.00 CDN delivered. Won't go to waste. I change fork oil every two years. Will be able to use this on the Gold Wing as well.
 

Eatmore Mudd

Moderator
Staff member
Ordered and received the fork oil level gauge. Was thinking of using the tried and true coat hanger gauge, but decided to up my game. $28.00 CDN delivered. Won't go to waste. I change fork oil every two years. Will be able to use this on the Gold Wing as well.
Your pics of the fork oil gage aren't loading.
😜😎
 

Roy Gavin

Well travelled
Ordered and received the fork oil level gauge. Was thinking of using the tried and true coat hanger gauge, but decided to up my game. $28.00 CDN delivered. Won't go to waste. I change fork oil every two years. Will be able to use this on the Gold Wing as well.
I have one of these electric pumps used to drain auto sumps from the top, so I just overfill. drop the tube down the required distance then pump out the excess.
What fork fluid and air gap do you intend using , Ohlins, Racetech and factory all have quite different views !
 

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Have been looking at chain and sprocket sets, tools that have been recommended such as a chain breaker, chain puller, tires. Will be getting the chain breaker and puller later this year. Have sourced a Vevor tire iron set that doubles as a bead breaker, on wish list when more are available.

Thinking that a chain and sprocket set on the shelf ready to go, the 520/525 chain, as recommended a good thing to have. Inexpensive sets, OEM quality sets including sprockets are around $113.00 CDN delivered, a DID chain and sprocket set - 525 VX3 with 15/38 sprockets for the Himalayan is $127.00 Euro ($175.00 CDN) delivered. Don't know if there is a $62.00 benefit using the more expensive chain set. I do believe that when you change a chain, sprockets should be changed as well. These items wear together.

This Sunday bike day, first actual foray into the off road riding world, mentioned I don't like gravel/dirt, will provide more insight into what I may need. Have been looking into a different handlebar, the Thunderbird X I believe or handlebar risers. I understand learning to operate the bike standing up is a good skill to have. Thinking about these two changes becasue I'm 6'2", 34" inseam. long arms - don't want to be bent over too much.
 

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Had breakfast this morning in Sooke at Mom's. Great breakfast. Today was my first foray into riding off road, and it was an eye opener.

During breakfast, many topics were discussed, and as always, motorcycle issue in between world events. Discussed the Power Tronic and Power Commander kits, exhaust modifications - header and exhaust can, handlebar riser and different handlebars, tire selection, and more. It was a good info session as well as a very enjoyable breakfast meet.
 

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Tires have been a discussion topic of late. Have put together a list of tires and sizes, on/off road ratings. The Dulop TrailMax and Metzeller tire are contenders.

Michelin Anakee Wild – Rear: 130-80-17 Front: 90/90-21
Michelin Anakee Adventure – Rear: 130/80-17 Front: 90/90-21
Continental TK70 Rock – Rear: 130/80-17
Continental TKC80 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 40/60 street/road
Continental TKC70 Adventure – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 mostly street orientated (MHO)
Bridgestone Battlax Adventure Cross AX41 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 40/60
Dunlop TrailMax – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21
Shinko E805 – Rear: 130/80-17
Shinko E804 – Front: 90/90-21
Shinko 705 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21
Kenda K270
Motoz Tractionator Adventure – Rear: 130-80-17 Front: 90/90-21 mostly off road
Mitas E09 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 20/80
Mitas E07 – Rear: 130/80-17 Front: 90/90-21 50/50
Metzeler Enduro Sahara 3 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 50/50
Metzeler Karoo 3 – Rear: 130/80-17 Front 90/90-21

Probably lots more out there, but have to have a cut off. The size difference between the 130/80 and a 120/90 from the tire size comparison that I use is 8 mm diameter. Do not think this will make a lot of difference in ride quality and performance.

Like the tread pattern of the Metzeler Karoo:

karoo-3-rear-tire.jpg

and the Trailmax:

trailmax-mission-rear-tire.jpg

These tires are similar in cost.
 

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Added tread Profiles to the list.

Michelin Anakee Wild – Rear: 130-80-17 Front: 90/90-21
ANAKEE-WILD-Rear-Tire.jpg
Michelin Anakee Adventure – Rear: 130/80-17 Front: 90/90-21
anakee-adventure-rear-tire-160-60r17-07558.jpg
Continental TK70 Rock – Rear: 130/80-17
tkc70-rocks-rear-tire-140-80r17-02446380000.jpg

Continental TKC80 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 40/60 street/road
conti-twinduro-tkc80-rear-tire.jpg
Continental TKC70 Adventure – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 mostly street orientated (MHO)
tkc-70-adventure-rear-tire.jpg
Bridgestone Battlax Adventure Cross AX41 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 40/60
battlax-adventurecross-ax-41-rear-tire-170-60-17-72q-011461.jpg
Dunlop TrailMax – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21
trailmax-mission-rear-tire.jpg
Shinko E805 – Rear: 130/80-17
e805-rear-tire-130-80-17.jpg
Shinko E804 – Front: 90/90-21

Shinko 705 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21
705-series-dual-sport-rear-tire-150-70r17-tl.jpg
Kenda K270
 

Attachments

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Next installment:

Motoz Tractionator Adventure – Rear: 130-80-17 Front: 90/90-21 mostly off road
tractionator-adventure-rear-tire.jpg
Mitas E09 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 20/80
e09-enduro-trail-dakar-rear-tire-120-90-17.jpg
Mitas E07 – Rear: 130/80-17 Front: 90/90-21 50/50
e07-enduro-trail-rear-tire-150-70-17-2018-121350-rear.jpg
Metzeler Enduro Sahara 3 – Rear: 120/90-17 Front: 90/90-21 50/50
enduro-3-sahara-rear-tire.jpg
Metzeler Karoo 3 – Rear: 130/80-17 Front 90/90-21
karoo-3-rear-tire.jpg

Tread pattern, tire size availability, and opinions/reviews from friends/dealers/internet are being considered. Budget too.
 

Bluestrom13

Well travelled
Location
Elswhere
opinions /reviews from friends/dealers/internet are being considered
They're all round and black. :unsure::)

The OEM Pirelli that I just replaced at 6000 miles was well adequate up to the Himmis tarmac limit.
Also did OK greenlaning in UK.
Replaced with a Kenda, That's OK too. (Pirelli not available at the time).
Friend has a Kenda on his. Second one. First changed at 8000 miles. He does 13 to 14000 MILES per annum.
 

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
100% correct. Used Shinko Tourmaster tires on my-ex 1800 a few years back, did not stand up. Have the Tourmaster tires on my 1200 Gold Wing, difference in weight and such, and doing well - not as good as the Michelin Commander II that were replaced with the Shinko, but still acceptable.

For me it's a budget, then tread profile, and lastly reviews and such. Reviews from friends whom I trust is very good. Best part is that if the tire(s) I choose as replacements do not work out, on to the next candidate.

Looked into the company that makes the CEAT tires. Been doing this for a long time. There are a lot of offshore companies that have been manufacturing items for a long time, and have a good reputation outside north america. Can't say everything is rosy offshore, but everything is not rosy over here.

Looked at the Kenda, not a fan of the tread pattern. Found an article a while back about tread design. Companies spend almost as much time on the tread design as it does on the tire design. It's about esthetics, curb appeal, what is visually appealing.

Will be looking at price point. So many of these tires are within a few dollars that the tire design - dual compound, single compound, tread design has to be considered. The last to be considered and probably be the tie breaker is riding profile. If you're in the back 40 every weekend, a tire that is predominantly for the street won't cut it.

My friend and I discussed tire selection for quite a while. He lives outside Ottawa and is one of the lead riders for the local BMW club - rides an '06 air head. Has two/three sets of tires/rims on the go at any one time. He's a bit anal about the tires he uses. If the tires he has work, he keeps, if not he discards even if the tire(s) still have life remianing. He has a friend who is the same way, his friend rides a 1200 Super Tenere.

My friend has made recommendations on what works for he and his friend, and with the Himalayan being 200 pounds or so lighter, the recommended tires may be a good go.

My friend likes the Continental and Michelin Adventure/Wild series of tires. His friend likes the Metzeler Karoo 3, and is going to try the Dunlop TrailMax next.

Did a tire price comparison. Anywhere from $250.00 to $500.00 CDN, probably meet somewhere in the middle.
 

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Have made a decision regarding the next tire iteration for my Himalayan. Lots of yes/no answers from friends and people I know.

My friend in Ontario does not like the Anlas. Mitas E07, or the Hiendau. I mentioned above that he prefers the Continental and Michelin series.

Went for coffee at the local RE mom/pop shop, and the topic of tire selection came up. I value Ken's opinion, shop owner, and he is highly regarded for his knowledge and use of the various tires out there for the Himalayan and off road riding. Very down to earth sort, and I do not believe he would steer me in a wrong direction.

We went to his tire warehousing spot and looked at tires. I settled on the Anlas Capra X for the front, he can't buy this tire anymore for whatever reason - I got the last one in his inventory, but he has used it on many occasions as have others that frequent his shop - good reviews.

The rear tire is a Mitas E07. Like the tread profile, and it has reasonable longevity. His wife uses it on her Himalayan, and has just shy of 10K Kms on it. Ken estimates that it will give another 3K to 4K kms before it has to be replaced.

Sent my choices to my friend in Ontario and got a resounding NO back.

The good news in all this is that if I don't like the Mitas, I can try a different make/model. Won't be able to do this with Anlas, but that is okay as well.

I intend to install these before we leave for our cross Canada trip and get a few Kms on them before the trip.

Cheers
 

Rednaxs60

Well travelled
Going to have the local dealer install the new tires. I will take off the bike and take with me when I go to coffee next Wednesday. Asked about balancing and using CounterAct Beads, similar to Dyna Beads in the tubes. He isn't sold on using in tubes, tubeless tires - definitely. He will balance with external weights.

Will use these tires unitl late May/early June next year then change to a new set for the Tuktoyaktuk trip. Been hearing good things about the Continental TKC70 tires, nice tread pattern as well.

YSS suspension showed up today. Hope to get the front done next week. Won't take long to tear into the rear to get the rear shock off/on. Going to look at the sag numbers before I put everything back together, especially in the rear.

Have measured the rear shock spring for ID and length. The YSS spring numbers make no sense to me. The YSS shock spring is a 56/85/260 - the 260 is the length. There spring ID is 2 1/4 inch. Factory preload setting is at 1 cm. Instructions indicate that the preload has been set as per the riders profile.

The rebound damping setting has 31 clicks of adjustment, I've set it mid way.

The front fork emulator setting will be set at 2 1/4 turns and I will be using 20 weight oil. The instructions mention to use the air gap as per instructions on the YSS web site. Haven't found these instructions yet. Probably us the air gap as specified in the service manual.
 
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