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Update on Itchyboots

TN_twowheeladdict

Well travelled
Location
Tennessee
I didn't! I did however get the TORQUE figure from your post which I have quoted above! :)
Oh, you did a torque to weight ratio instead of a power to weight ratio. Didn't read your original post carefully on my little phone. Got it. (y)

Personally I would prefer the Himalayan over the Honda for adventure touring and chose the Himalayan over the Versys X300 after back to back test rides.
 
What amazes me is that Noraly doesn't appear to carry enough food or water to spend a couple days out in the wilderness waiting for a rescue, or a SPOT system for emergencies.
I guess she relies on having the SATCOM phone with $50 on it to make an emergency call. As you say, unless she has SEAL training, how long can she survive waiting for help to arrive? Maybe that's the thrill of it, for some its jumping over the Grand Canyon or a few school buses, for her maybe the challenge and risk.
 
Thank you for throwing those figures into the pool of information to think about! If it were just raw power to weight considerations then absolutely the Honda would win every time.

Torque/Weight comparisons:

HImalayan = 32/421 = .076
Honda = 22/320 = .068
So Himalayan has an 11.8% advantage over the Honda

Add an estimated 180lbs of rider and gear on top of the bikes and we get
Himalayan = 32/601 = .053
Honda = 22/500 = .044
So with the weight of rider and equipment added that advantage the Himalayan has over the Honda rises to over 20.4% differential.

Then perhaps we should look at the basic design of the bikes.

The Honda is a trail bike - and I am 100% sure that it would excel over the Himalayan when it is doing what Honda designed it for. Light, nimble.... but then you load it up for adventure touring and that will change the game somewhat! Sure it potentially has a power to weight advantage over the Himalayan if you rev it up to where the power is the whole time. Perfect for a days trail riding, but maybe not quite where you want to be for touring. I have to respect Noraly's arse.... (no NOT LIKE THAT you dirty minded people!!!!) The Honda must be devillishly uncomfortable to tour on compared to the plush cheek-cuddling loveliness of a Himalayan touring seat....

The Himalayan is more of a pack mule. It has the torque lower down the rev range than the Honda so it behaves more like a tractor. Also consider the weight distribution; the Himalayan carries its weight lower so the laden weight handling will be correspondingly better as well since the Honda being so light by comparison when laden it's centre of gravity will be far higher than the Himalayan.

Considering all of the above this is why I still feel that a Himalayan would have been a better choice than the Honda for the riding she is doing.

As has been said before, the Himalayan defies its own statistics in terms of utility. I feel that it is almost "greater than the sum of its parts".
Just don't know how well the Honda performs, loaded down with gear well past design specs. When you consider having less torque, one has to make up for it with more clutch action. So frame stress and clutch wear can come into play. What is surprising is purchasing a used bike with no idea of how it was maintained or abused, and putting it through the rigors of her trip. Its commendable its holding up so well. The real test would be to send the Honda to the Himalayas and let it run side by side with the Himalayan in that environment.
 

johnny42

Well travelled
Location
NY State
I guess she relies on having the SATCOM phone with $50 on it to make an emergency call. As you say, unless she has SEAL training, how long can she survive waiting for help to arrive? Maybe that's the thrill of it, for some its jumping over the Grand Canyon or a few school buses, for her maybe the challenge and risk.
I guess I'm not sure exactly how a SATCOM works, but when she's in the middle of nowhere with no cell phone reception (to use a browser to find someone who could rescue her), how would she know who to call? And that's assuming someone would be willing to locate her and give assistance.
 
I guess I'm not sure exactly how a SATCOM works, but when she's in the middle of nowhere with no cell phone reception (to use a browser to find someone who could rescue her), how would she know who to call? And that's assuming someone would be willing to locate her and give assistance.
The SATCOM p[hone uses satellites, and is used in remote locations. Pretty much 100% coverage around the world. She would call either her parents or a pre-arranged person and they would use the coordinates from the SATCOM phone to pinpoint her location. Whoever she calls is responsible to relay info to rescue teams.
 

petespace1

Well travelled
Location
Aus
I’m sure many here will know this already.
GEOS International Emergency Response Coordination Centre ... and other similar organisations are programmed into the SOS button of communicators such as the SPOT, Garmin etc. most also have a process so a person or persons can see where the user is at any given time . The time between ‘pings’ are also settable and the more often it’s sent the more expensive the plan will be. Pre programmed messages can also be sent. The Spot 3 /Spot 4 are one way devices whereas you can also get two way communicators or full satellite phones. Carriers and equipment also need to match and that depends on countries too.
 

TN_twowheeladdict

Well travelled
Location
Tennessee
Just don't know how well the Honda performs, loaded down with gear well past design specs. When you consider having less torque, one has to make up for it with more clutch action. So frame stress and clutch wear can come into play. What is surprising is purchasing a used bike with no idea of how it was maintained or abused, and putting it through the rigors of her trip. Its commendable its holding up so well. The real test would be to send the Honda to the Himalayas and let it run side by side with the Himalayan in that environment.
What makes you think the Honda is over loaded? A quick search says it can handle over 300 lbs and I would be very surprised if Noraly and gear come close to that.
 

GaleForceEight

Well travelled
Location
Southend on Sea
Oh, you did a torque to weight ratio instead of a power to weight ratio. Didn't read your original post carefully on my little phone. Got it. (y)

Personally I would prefer the Himalayan over the Honda for adventure touring and chose the Himalayan over the Versys X300 after back to back test rides.
Yep.... for what she is doing I felt the torque to weight ratio was probably more relevant since it’s not about speed so much as the ‘tractor factor’; also that to get to the power on the honda requires far higher revs, and the weight distribution on the himalayan will be better. It’s like she has chosen a thoroughbred to pull a plough!

I am not dissing the Honda - as people have said, it is coping with it - I just think the Himalayan would do a better job for type of touring she does.
 

TN_twowheeladdict

Well travelled
Location
Tennessee
Yep.... for what she is doing I felt the torque to weight ratio was probably more relevant since it’s not about speed so much as the ‘tractor factor’; also that to get to the power on the honda requires far higher revs, and the weight distribution on the himalayan will be better. It’s like she has chosen a thoroughbred to pull a plough!

I am not dissing the Honda - as people have said, it is coping with it - I just think the Himalayan would do a better job for type of touring she does.
I agree with your last statement. For me the Himalayan would have been the choice. For her the Honda is probably better because of the weight savings make it feel more controllable for her. It would be interesting if she would answer this topic on her blog or other media sources that I don't belong to.

Here is a guy who rode a RE Classic around West Africa. https://ridermagazine.com/2017/02/03/riding-a-royal-enfield-through-wild-west-africa/

I think I would rather be on my Van Van in that soft sand Noraly has been riding in.
 

60sRetro

Well travelled
Location
British Columbia
For her the Honda is probably better because of the weight savings make it feel more controllable for her.
Obviously I don't know, but, reading between the lines on how things were going for her over the past year, I think it more likely that it was money savings she was looking at, perhaps the drop in her YT income in combination with the uncertainty of an Africa trip, not wanting to have to leave another bike somewhere in the world.

That's kinda why I think, as her YT income bumps back up and she gets more comfortable with an extended Africa trip (both of which are happening)...a bike upgrade is in the cards.
 
What makes you think the Honda is over loaded? A quick search says it can handle over 300 lbs and I would be very surprised if Noraly and gear come close to that.
Well let's see what Honda thought of the previous design:

Based on our previous CRF250L, for 2021, it gets a larger engine with more torque and a whole host of chassis and suspension refinements.

My previous comment on overloaded in the sense that with less torque means it puts the strain on the clutch and transmission. For short weekend trips with not a lot of gear, should be fine. When you extend that to a long trip there is a cumulative effect which equates to more wear and tear. There is no free lunch. However I also noted it was commendable that the bike has held up as well as it has.
 
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TN_twowheeladdict

Well travelled
Location
Tennessee
Obviously I don't know, but, reading between the lines on how things were going for her over the past year, I think it more likely that it was money savings she was looking at, perhaps the drop in her YT income in combination with the uncertainty of an Africa trip, not wanting to have to leave another bike somewhere in the world.

That's kinda why I think, as her YT income bumps back up and she gets more comfortable with an extended Africa trip (both of which are happening)...a bike upgrade is in the cards.
Good points. From the news outlets I monitor South Africa went into another lock down so she got out of there in time to continue riding.
 

TN_twowheeladdict

Well travelled
Location
Tennessee
Well let's see what Honda thought of the previous design:

Based on our previous CRF250L, for 2021, it gets a larger engine with more torque and a whole host of chassis and suspension refinements.

My previous comment on overloaded in the sense that with less torque means it puts the strain on the clutch and transmission. For short weekend trips with not a lot of gear, should be fine. When you extend that to a long trip there is a cumulative effect which equates to more wear and tear. There is no free lunch. However I also noted it was commendable that the bike has held up as well as it has.
You read way too much into marketing jargon. Everybody bumped up to 300cc because everyone else was bumping up to 300cc and by bumping up to 300cc maybe some of those with 250cc will let go of their current bike and buy a new one. Same old marketing game that has gone on since the introduction of motorized vehicles.

I had a Ninja 250. Then they bumped it up to 300. Now it is up to 400. 400cc is the smallest Ninja you can buy now. The 250 did everything well and was way more comfortable than these modern bikes.
 
You read way too much into marketing jargon. Everybody bumped up to 300cc because everyone else was bumping up to 300cc and by bumping up to 300cc maybe some of those with 250cc will let go of their current bike and buy a new one. Same old marketing game that has gone on since the introduction of motorized vehicles.

I had a Ninja 250. Then they bumped it up to 300. Now it is up to 400. 400cc is the smallest Ninja you can buy now. The 250 did everything well and was way more comfortable than these modern bikes.
I can tell the difference when riding a single cylinder 250cc such as Noraly's Honda and a 411cc single. All I am saying is I'll take the bike with the greater low end torque any day. the only advantage the smaller displacement Honda has is less weight. I'm not moto-crossing, I don't need a peaky high rev bike, I want a tractor for most terrain, especially with gear that throws the balance of the bike off compared to an unburdened bike. My Montesa 250cc Impala was a thoroughbred 2 stroke, would do a 100 mph, handled great, but I wouldn't want it where I ride the Himalayan.
 

petespace1

Well travelled
Location
Aus
I respect her judgement and opinion, she's ridden both. Now you can also go around the world on a Honda C90 if one prefers
Absolutely (y) any bike will do, one just needs the 'proverbial' to do long trips. :)
I am incapable of riding around the world or even around Australia.

Having said that Nathan Millward rode an Aussie postie bike (Honda 105 cc / 110 cc bike) from Sydney to London and then New York to Alaska.
He then led (and still leads) many rides on a Himalayan ... https://www.nathanmillward.com/

Then there is this bloke Jack Groves aka britonabike aka mad or nomad .
 
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TN_twowheeladdict

Well travelled
Location
Tennessee
I can tell the difference when riding a single cylinder 250cc such as Noraly's Honda and a 411cc single. All I am saying is I'll take the bike with the greater low end torque any day. the only advantage the smaller displacement Honda has is less weight. I'm not moto-crossing, I don't need a peaky high rev bike, I want a tractor for most terrain, especially with gear that throws the balance of the bike off compared to an unburdened bike. My Montesa 250cc Impala was a thoroughbred 2 stroke, would do a 100 mph, handled great, but I wouldn't want it where I ride the Himalayan.
...and that's great. For you. This is why there are so many different bikes out there. I couldn't have taken the Himalayan to the places I have taken my KLX250S, and couldn't have taken either to the places I have taken my Van Van 200. I also wouldn't have wanted to endure either of those bikes where I have taken the Himalayan.
 
...and that's great. For you. This is why there are so many different bikes out there. I couldn't have taken the Himalayan to the places I have taken my KLX250S, and couldn't have taken either to the places I have taken my Van Van 200. I also wouldn't have wanted to endure either of those bikes where I have taken the Himalayan.
maybe the average person doesn't have the finances to own multiple bikes, so they need to pick the one best matched to their current riding preferences. I certainly would not be well suited for a BMW 1250 GS, too tall, too heavy, too expensive etc. Perhaps for Noraly she now has found the perfect bike in the Honda suited for her capabilities, riding style, preferences etc. As I said it is more the rider than the bike, depending upon their skills they have and the type of riding they prefer, they should match to the right bike. So there will never be the "best" bike as each rider is different. Seems the Himalayan appeals to a pretty large group of riders however.
 

TN_twowheeladdict

Well travelled
Location
Tennessee
maybe the average person doesn't have the finances to own multiple bikes, so they need to pick the one best matched to their current riding preferences. I certainly would not be well suited for a BMW 1250 GS, too tall, too heavy, too expensive etc. Perhaps for Noraly she now has found the perfect bike in the Honda suited for her capabilities, riding style, preferences etc. As I said it is more the rider than the bike, depending upon their skills they have and the type of riding they prefer, they should match to the right bike. So there will never be the "best" bike as each rider is different. Seems the Himalayan appeals to a pretty large group of riders however.
Many of us that found the Himalayan bought because of what it is, and what it isn't. I couldn't own it if it were my only bike because I do need to travel sustained 65 mph from time to time. For me it is a great bike to explore and find new roads and paths.
 
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